Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru The National Assembly for Wales
Y Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc The Children and Young People Committee
Dydd Iau, 12 Ionawr 2012 Thursday, 12 January 2012
Cynnwys Contents Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau a Dirprwyon Introduction, Apologies and Substitutions Gweithredu Mesur Dysgu a Sgiliau (Cymru) 2009: Sesiwn Dystiolaeth Implementation of the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009: Evidence Session Gweithredu Mesur Dysgu a Sgiliau (Cymru) 2009: Sesiwn Dystiolaeth Implementation of the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009: Evidence Session Cynnig Gweithdrefnol Procedural Motion
Cofnodir y trafodion hyn yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir cyfieithiad Saesneg o gyfraniadau yn y Gymraeg. These proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, an English translation of Welsh speeches is included.
Aelodau’r pwyllgor yn bresennol Committee members in attendance
Christine Chapman	Llafur (Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor) Labour (Committee Chair)
Jocelyn Davies	Plaid Cymru The Party of Wales
Suzy Davies	Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Welsh Conservatives
Mark Drakeford	Llafur (yn dirprwyo ar ran Keith Davies) Labour (substitute for Keith Davies)
Julie Morgan	Llafur Labour
Lynne Neagle	Llafur Labour
Jenny Rathbone	Llafur Labour
Aled Roberts	Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru Welsh Liberal Democrats
Eraill yn bresennol Others in attendance
Nicole Broom	Llamau
David Bryer	Cyfarwyddwr Rhanbarthol, Urdd Gobaith Cymru Regional Director, Urdd Gobaith Cymru
Siân Browne	Llamau
Rhun Dafydd	Ysgol Gyfun Bro Morgannwg
Greta Isaac	Ysgol Gyfun Bro Morgannwg
Sarah Lee	Llamau
Jan Mead	Llamau
Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn bresennol National Assembly for Wales officials in attendance
Claire Morris	Clerc Clerk
Meriel Singleton	Dirprwy Glerc Deputy Clerk
Anne Thomas	Gwasanaeth Ymchwil Research Service
Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 9.29 a.m. The meeting began at 9.29 a.m.
Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau a Dirprwyon Introduction, Apologies and Substitutions
[1] Christine Chapman: Bore da, and welcome to the Children and Young People Committee. All mobile phones, BlackBerrys and pagers should be switched off. The National Assembly operates thorough the medium of Welsh and of English. Headsets are available, and the interpretation can be heard on channel 1, with amplification of proceedings on channel 0. As this is a formal public meeting, Members need not operate the microphones themselves. In the event of an emergency, an alarm will sound and the ushers will direct everyone to the nearest safe exit and assembly point. We have had apologies from Angela Burns, Keith Davies and Simon Thomas. Mark Drakeford is substituting for Keith Davies, so welcome, Mark.
9.30 a.m.
Gweithredu Mesur Dysgu a Sgiliau (Cymru) 2009: Sesiwn Dystiolaeth Implementation of the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009: Evidence Session
[2] Christine Chapman: The first evidence session today is from Urdd Gobaith Cymru. I welcome Dai Briar, who is the regional director for south Wales. Geraint Scott is with you as well. Welcome also to Rhun Dafydd and Greta Isaac, both of whom are year 12 students from Ysgol Bro Morgannwg, Barry. A warm welcome to you all. We have a series of questions, and we welcome your views on how you feel about the way that the learning and skills Measure has operated. I am going to start the questions. I would like to talk to you about the courses that you did in year 10. Were you happy with the choice of courses that you had in year 10?
[3] Ms Isaac: Yn anffodus i mi, nid oeddwn i’n gallu cymryd celf achos roedd y pwnc yn yr un golofn â cherdd. Roedd honno’n broblem i mi. Gan fy mod yn awr yn astudio celf lefel A, mae’r broses wedi bod yn anoddach. Yn gyffredinol, mae lefel A yn llawer pwysicach i mi na TGAU. Roedd cyrsiau TGAU’n bethau yr oeddwn yn ei mwynhau, ond mae celf erbyn hyn yn fwy o waith. Roedd yr athrawon yn ddigon parod i newid unrhyw beth yr oeddech chi am ei newid yn y colofnau. Roeddent yn rhoi llawer o gymorth i ni. Pan oeddent yn meddwl nad oeddem ni’n ddigon da neu’n ddigon profiadol mewn pwnc, roedden nhw’n ddigon parod i roi cymorth i ni ar beth yn union i’w ddewis. Roedd TGAU yn brofiad grêt i ni.		Ms Isaac: Unfortunately for me, I was not able to study art because it was in the same option column as music. That was a problem for me. As I am now studying A-level art, the process has been more difficult. On the whole, A-level is much more important to me than GCSE. The courses that I did at GCSE were things that I enjoyed, but it means that art is now more work. The teachers were perfectly willing to change anything that you wanted changed in your columns. They gave us a great deal of support. If they felt that we were not good enough or experienced enough in a subject, they were willing to advise us on what exactly to choose. GCSE was a great experience for us.
[4] Mr Dafydd: Roeddwn i’n hollol hapus gyda’r dewisiadau. Roedd yr athrawon yn ddigon parod i newid y colofnau i ni, fel bod modd i ni gymryd pynciau a fyddai’n siwtio beth roeddem am ei wneud.		Mr Dafydd: I was very happy with the choices. The teachers were willing to alter the columns for us, so that we could take subjects that fitted with what we wanted to do.
[5] Christine Chapman: Were you aware of any friends of yours who may not have had the choices that you had?
[6] Mr Dafydd: Roedd rhai wedi cael problemau, ond roedd rhai wedi gallu newid beth roeddent am ei gymryd. Greta, rwyt ti wedi cymryd cwrs lefel A na chymeraist ti fel cwrs TGAU.		Mr Dafydd: Some did have problems, but some were able to change what they had chosen. Greta, you are now taking an A-level course that you did not take at GCSE.
[7] Ms Isaac: Ydw, fel yr oeddwn yn dweud, gan nad oeddwn wedi cael y profiad o wneud celf TGAU, roedd yn rhaid i mi ddechrau o’r dechrau, ond nid oedd honno’n broblem fawr, gan nad yw’n bwnc academaidd iawn. Roedd ffrind i mi, Celyn, yn methu â gwneud celf TGAU, ond rhoddodd yr ysgol gyfle iddi hi wneud TGAU y tu allan i oriau ysgol. Felly, maen nhw’n ystyried y pethau hynny i gyd.		Ms Isaac: Yes, as I was saying, because I had not had the experience of doing GCSE art, I had to begin from the beginning, but that was not a big problem for me as it is not a very academic subject. A friend of mine, Celyn, could not do art GCSE, but the school gave her the opportunity to do it on an extracurricular basis. So, they take everything into consideration.
[8] Christine Chapman: Do you think that more pupils are staying on in school as a result of the wider choices that pupils now have?
[9] Ms Isaac: Mae llawer yn mynd i golegau i ddysgu pynciau fel trin gwallt a phrydferthwch ac ati, ond mae celf yn rhywbeth rydych yn gallu ei wneud yn yr ysgol. Mae’n anodd i unrhyw un sydd eisiau gwneud gwyddoniaeth gan fod yn rhaid iddynt ddysgu’r derminoleg i gyd yn Saesneg os ydynt am astudio’r pwnc ymhellach mewn prifysgolion y tu allan i Gymru. Wrth gwrs, gallwch gael gwersi y tu allan i oriau ysgol i ddysgu’r derminoleg. Fel arall, mae pobl yn mynd i golegau, ac maent yn mwynhau hynny gan ei fod yn gyfle iddyn nhw gael profiadau y tu allan i’r ysgol gan barhau i deimlo eu bod yn perthyn i’r ysgol.		Ms Isaac: Many go to colleges to follow subjects such as hairdressing and beauty, but art is something that you can do at the school. It is difficult for anyone studying science, because they have to learn all the terminology in English if they want to go on to study the subject at universities outside of Wales. Of course, you can have lessons outside of school hours in order to learn the terminology. Otherwise, people go to colleges, and the enjoy it because it gives them the opportunity to get experiences beyond the school environment while feeling that they belong to the school.
[10] Mr Dafydd: Hefyd, mae mynd i goleg yn rhoi ymdeimlad o ryddid iddynt fel pobl.		Mr Dafydd: Attending a college also gives them a feeling of freedom.
[11] Christine Chapman: Thank you. I will hand over to Julie Morgan. I remind any Members or anyone else who may have a phone on to switch it off, because it affects the sound quality.
[12] Julie Morgan: Bore da. You said that you had help in choosing which courses to take. Who did you get the help from? What was the help like?
[13] Ms Isaac: Cyn inni wneud unrhyw benderfyniadau, roedd yr athrawon yn rhoi ffurflen i bob disgybl yn y flwyddyn i’w llenwi er mwyn rhoi syniad iddynt o ba fath o bynciau yr oeddent am eu dewis. Wedyn, cafodd y wybodaeth ei chrynhoi gan yr athrawon mewn tabl a cholofnau, gan roi mwy o drefn ar y gwaith. Gwelodd yr athrawon y disgyblion yn unigol i drafod eu profiad yn y pwnc. Cawsom gymorth hefyd gan yr athrawon y byddem yn mynd atynt y flwyddyn ganlynol, a chan ein rhieni, sy’n gallu bod yn help mawr. Roedd yn bwysig bod y disgybl yn gwybod beth yn union i’w ddisgwyl.		Ms Isaac: Before we made any decisions, the teachers gave all pupils in the year a form to fill in so that they would get an idea of what kind of subjects they wanted to choose. The teachers then used the information in order to compile a table and columns, and to structure the work. The teachers saw pupils individually to discuss their experience in relation to the subject. We also had support from the teachers for the following year, and from our parents, who can offer a great deal of help. It was important that the pupil knew exactly what to expect.
[14] Mr Dafydd: Hefyd, roeddem yn gallu mynd at Gyrfa Cymru i wybod beth oedd ein dewisiadau.		Mr Dafydd: We were also able to turn to Careers Wales to find out what our options were.
[15] Julie Morgan: Were your parents involved in the decisions?
[16] Mr Dafydd: Fy newis personol i ydoedd, ond roedd fy rhieni yn fy helpu i wneud y dewis.		Mr Dafydd: It was my personal choice, but my parents assisted me in making the choice.
[17] Julie Morgan: You said that you filled in a form noting the subjects that you wanted to do. Did you have an overall prospectus to show the range of choices available?
[18] Mr Dafydd: Cawsom lythyr yn nodi cynnwys y cyrsiau Safon Uwch, a oedd yn ein helpu i wneud ein dewisiadau.		Mr Dafydd: We had a letter outlining the content of the A-level courses, which helped us to make our choices.
[19] Ms Isaac: Rhoddwyd syniadau inni am yr hyn a oedd ar gael y tu hwnt i’r ysgol hefyd, er mwyn inni gael cyfle i ystyried pynciau i’w hastudio y tu fas i’r ysgol. Nid oedd pob dewis yn golygu astudio yn yr ysgol yn unig. Felly, os nad oeddech am aros yn yr ysgol, roedd digon o gyfleoedd y tu fas i’r ysgol hefyd.		Ms Isaac: They also gave us ideas as to what was available outside school, so we had the opportunity to consider subjects to be followed beyond the school campus. Not all choices meant studying at school. So, if you did not want to stay in school, there were plenty of opportunities outside as well.
[20] Julie Morgan: Did you feel that you had enough time to make the decisions?
[21] Ms Isaac: Yn bersonol, nid oeddwn yn teimlo fy mod wedi cael digon o amser i benderfynu, ond mae hynny’n wahanol i bawb. Mae rhai pobl yn gwybod yn union beth maent am ei wneud, ond nid yw rhai ohonom yn gwybod. Efallai y byddai wythnos ychwanegol wedi bod yn syniad da.		Ms Isaac: Personally, I did not feel that I had enough time to decide, but it is different for everyone. Some people know exactly what they want to do, but some of us do not know. Maybe an extra week would have been a good idea.
[22] Julie Morgan: How long did you actually spend trying to decide which courses to choose?
[23] Ms Isaac: Roedd ein canlyniadau TGAU yn rhoi syniad inni o ba bynciau roeddem orau ynddynt ond, wrth gwrs, rydych yn meddwl am y pynciau rydych am eu hastudio yn y dyfodol drwy gydol cyfnod TGAU, yn ogystal â’r pynciau rydych yn eu mwynhau ac ati. Roeddem yn gallu cyflwyno ein dewisiadau lefel A ddiwrnod cyhoeddi ein canlyniadau TGAU, a oedd braidd yn rhy gynnar. Cawsom tua phythefnos ar ôl ein canlyniadau TGAU er mwyn penderfynu, ond byddai mis wedi bod yn well o lawer.		Ms Isaac: Our GCSE results gave us an idea as to the subjects that we were best at but, of course, you think about which subjects to follow in the future throughout your GCSE period, as well as which subjects you enjoy and so on. We were able to submit our A-level choices on the day we received our GCSE results, which was a bit too early. We had about two weeks after our GCSE results in which to make our choices, but a month would have been far better.
[24] Mr Dafydd: Roedd yn bosibl gollwng pwnc ar ôl ei ddewis, felly os nad oeddech yn ei fwynhau ar y dechrau, roedd modd i chi ei ollwng yn ddiweddarach.		Mr Dafydd: It was possible to drop any subject you had chosen, so if you did not enjoy it at the outset, you could drop it later.
[25] Julie Morgan: So, there was some flexibility in choosing. Would you say that you needed a bit more time to make the proper choice?
[26] Ms Isaac: Roedd gennym ddewis i ollwng pwnc ar ôl ychydig wythnosau, felly nid oedd yn rhaid inni barhau â phwnc penodol ar ôl ei ddewis.		Ms Isaac: We had the option of dropping a subject after a few weeks, so we did not have to continue with a specific subject after choosing it.
[27] Aled Roberts: Rydych wedi sôn am eich dewisiadau lefel A. A ydych yn cofio beth ddigwyddodd gyda’ch dewisiadau TGAU?		Aled Roberts: You have mentioned your A-level options. Do you remember what happened with your GCSE options?
[28] Mr Dafydd: Ydw; aethom i weld swyddogion Gyrfa Cymru ar eu bws a thrafod yr hyn roeddem yn ei fwynhau. Cawsom eu barn nhw am beth ddylem ei ddewis.		Mr Dafydd: Yes; we went to see Careers Wales officials on their bus and discussed with them what we enjoyed. They then gave us their opinion as to what we should choose.
[29] Ms Isaac: Daeth rhywun o Gyrfa Cymru i’n gweld yn unigol i fynd dros ein hadroddiadau ac i drafod ein syniadau ynghylch y pynciau TGAU yr oeddem am eu dilyn. Roedd hynny’n gymorth inni. Weithiau, nid yw pobl am drafod y materion hyn â’u rhieni; yn hytrach, byddai’n well ganddynt wneud eu dewisiadau eu hunain. Serch hynny, roedd y ffaith bod yn rhaid inni drafod y materion hyn â rhywun arall yn gymorth mawr inni.		Ms Isaac: Someone from Careers Wales came to see us individually to go over our reports and to discuss our ideas about the GCSE subjects that we wanted to take. That was a help to us. Sometimes, people do not want to discuss these issues with their parents; instead, they would rather make their own decisions. Despite this, the fact that we were required to discuss these issues with someone else was a great help to us.
[30] Aled Roberts: Hoffwn ddychwelyd yn awr at eich dewisiadau ar gyfer lefel A. Rwy’n credu eich bod wedi sôn am lythyr neu lyfr perthnasol.		Aled Roberts: I would like to return now to your A-level options. I believe that you talked about a relevant letter or book.
[31] Mr Dafydd: Yr oedd gennym lyfryn.		Mr Dafydd: We had a booklet.
[32] Aled Roberts: A oedd y llyfryn hwnnw yn sôn am y cyrsiau a oedd ar gael yn yr ysgol yn unig?		Aled Roberts: Did that booklet only detail the courses that were available at school?
[33] Mr Dafydd: Oedd.		Mr Dafydd: Yes.
[34] Aled Roberts: A gawsoch fanylion am unrhyw gyrsiau a oedd ar gael yn y coleg?		Aled Roberts: Did you have any details about courses that were available at college?
[35] Mr Dafydd: Naddo. Yr oedd yr ysgol wedi paratoi’r llyfryn hwnnw inni ar gyfer ein dewisiadau.		Mr Dafydd: No. The school prepared that booklet for us for our options.
[36] Ms Isaac: Rhoddodd yr ysgol y llyfryn inni, a oedd yn egluro pob pwnc a phob cymal o fewn y pynciau hynny. Nid oedd llawer o wybodaeth ar gael ynghylch ein dewisiadau y tu fas i’r ysgol. Rhoddwyd y wybodaeth honno inni ar lafar, ond nid oedd y wybodaeth wedi’i chynnwys yn y llyfryn.		Ms Isaac: The school gave us that booklet, which explained every subject and each phase within them. There was not much information available about our options outside school. That information was given to us orally, but it was not included in the booklet.
[37] Aled Roberts: A oeddech yn deall pa gamau roedd angen eu cymryd os nad oedd eich cyrsiau dewisedig ar gael yn yr ysgol? Dywedasoch fod yr amserlen yn dynn.		Aled Roberts: Did you understand what steps to take if your chosen courses were not available in the school? You said that the timetable was tight.
[38] Mr Dafydd: Roedd nifer o bobl yn ymwybodol o’r hyn yr oeddent am ei wneud. Os oeddent am fynd i’r coleg, roeddent yn ymwybodol o hynny’n barod.		Mr Dafydd: Many people were aware of what they wanted to do. If they wanted to go to college, they already knew that.
[39] Ms Isaac: Mae’r ysgol yn cynnig nifer o bynciau academaidd a chreadigol. Nid oes llawer o bwyslais ar bethau eraill. Mae gofyn i unigolion wneud eu dewisiadau eu hunain a gwneud ymchwil i’r hyn y maent am ei wneud.		Ms Isaac: The school offers a number of academic and creative subjects. Not much emphasis is placed on other things. It is up to individuals to make their own decisions and research what they want to do.
[40] Jenny Rathbone: Did local businesses come in to give advice at your school?
[41] Mr Dafydd: Cawsom ryw fath o ffug gyfweliad, ond ni fynegwyd barn inni ynghylch ein dewisiadau ar gyfer y dyfodol.		Mr Dafydd: We had some sort of mock interview, but no-one gave any opinions on our options for the future.
[42] Ms Isaac: Cynhaliwyd y sesiynau hyn er mwyn rhoi’r profiad inni o gael cyfweliad. Ni fynegwyd unrhyw farn ynghylch y dewisiadau y dylem eu gwneud. Dim ond gan Gyrfa Cymru y cawsom unrhyw gymorth ar ein dewisiadau.		Ms Isaac: These sessions were conducted to give us the experience of having an interview. No views were expressed as to the choices that we should make. It was only from Careers Wales that we received any support with our choices.
[43] Jenny Rathbone: Okay. So, no-one came in and said, ‘If you want to come in and work for us, these are the sorts of qualifications that we would like you to have.’
[44] Ms Isaac: Naddo.		Ms Isaac: No.
[45] Jenny Rathbone: Okay, thank you for that.
[46] Jocelyn Davies: Do you know of any cases in which not enough pupils chose a particular subject to enable it to run?  For example, maybe only two or three people chose a certain subject, which would not have been enough. Are you aware of any such cases?
[47] Ms Isaac: Gallaf sôn am un broblem. Roedd tair merch am astudio dawns yn ein hysgol ni. Roedd y sefyllfa honno’n anodd iddynt, gan mai dawns oedd y pwnc yr oeddent wir am ei astudio. Wrth gwrs, mae digon o gyfleoedd ar gael i astudio dawns y tu fas i’r ysgol. Dyna’r unig broblem o’r fath a ddaeth i’r amlwg. Serch hynny, rwy’n credu bod problem fawr wedi dod i’r amlwg mewn perthynas â mathemateg bellach ar gyfer lefel A. Yn wreiddiol, nid oedd llawer o bobl wedi ystyried dewis y pwnc hwnnw, ond ar ôl cael eu canlyniadau, penderfynodd nifer eu bod am ddilyn y pwnc, felly penderfynwyd cynnal y gwersi hynny wedi’r cwbl.		Ms Isaac: I can talk about one problem. Three girls wanted to study dance at our school. It was a difficult situation for them, given that dance was the subject that they really wanted to do. Of course, there are plenty of opportunities to study dance outside school. That that was the only problem of its kind. Nevertheless, I believe that a major problem arose in relation to advanced mathematics at A-level. Not many people had considered choosing that subject initially, but after receiving their results, many more decided that they wanted to follow the subject, and so a decision was made to put those classes on after all.
[48] Mr Dafydd: Yn ogystal, mae llawer o’n dosbarthiadau yn gymharol fach. Dim ond pedwar disgybl sy’n mynychu un o’m dosbarthiadau. Felly, rwy’n credu bod yr ysgol yn barod i ganiatáu cynnal cyrsiau â chyn lleied o bobl.		Mr Dafydd: In addition, many of our classes are relatively small. There are only four pupils in one of my classes. I therefore feel that the school is willing to allow courses to be held with such a small number of pupils.
[49] Ms Isaac: Dim ond tri disgybl sydd yn fy nosbarth cerddoriaeth lefel A. Felly, mae’r athrawon a’r ysgol yn barod i gynnal cyrsiau er gwaethaf nifer y disgyblion gan eu bod yn cydnabod mai dyma beth yr ydym am ei wneud yn y dyfodol.		Ms Isaac: There are only three pupils in my A-level music class. Therefore, the teachers and the school are willing to hold classes despite the number of pupils because they recognise that this is what we want to do in the future.
[50] Jocelyn Davies: But not the subject of dance.
[51] Ms Isaac: Na, nid dawns.		Ms Isaac: No, not dance.
[52] Jenny Rathbone: I would like to pursue something before I move on to another set of questions. In the courses where there are only three or four students in the class, was there any discussion about joining up with students from another school or college to make up the numbers?
[53] Mr Dafydd: Nac oedd. Rwy’n credu ei bod yn fantais i fod yn ddisgybl mewn dosbarth llai. Mae’r athro yn agosach atoch chi ac rydych yn dysgu mwy yn sgîl hynny. Mae’r sefyllfa honno’n gwella eich addysg.		Mr Dafydd: No. I believe that it is an advantage to be a pupil in a smaller class. You engage more closely with the teacher and learn more because of that. It is a situation that imporves your education.
[54] Jenny Rathbone: Do you use a live document called the learning pathways plan?
9.45 a.m.
[55] Ms Isaac: Ydym. Rhoddodd y ddogfen honno gymorth mawr inni mewn perthynas â’r ysgol. Gwnaeth yr ysgol ei newid i fod yn CV. Roedd yn gyfle i ni weld popeth roeddem wedi’i wneud yn ein bywydau. Gallai hynny fod wedi codi ofn arnom, neu ein cael i edrych ar yr hyn y byddwn yn ddigon parod i’w wneud yn y dyfodol. Roedd ei newid i fod yn CV yn syniad da. Byddwn yn gallu ei ddefnyddio y tu allan i’r ysgol. Roedd yn beth da gan fod pobl yn aml yn meddwl gwneud CV, ond byth yn llwyddo—roedd yn dda bod rhaid inni ei wneud yn yr ysgol.		Ms Isaac: Yes. That document helped us a lot in relation to school. The school changed it to a CV. It was an opportunity for us to see everything that we had done in our lives. That could have frightened us, or enabled us to look at what we would be prepared to do in the future. Changing it to a CV was a good idea. We will be able to use it outside school. It was a good thing because people often think about preparing a CV, but never get round to it—it was good that we had to do in the school.
[56] Mr Dafydd: Cytunaf â’r hyn a ddywedodd Greta.		Mr Dafydd: I agree with what Greta said.
[57] Suzy Davies: Mae gennyf gwestiwn ynglŷn â lleoliad astudiaethau. Mae’r ddau ohonoch yn mynd i ysgol yn hytrach na choleg, ond pa anogaeth a gawsoch gan yr ysgol am y dewisiadau yn y colegau?		Suzy Davies: I have a question about the location of studies. Both of you go to school rather than college, but what encouragement did you receive from the school about college options?
[58] Ms Isaac: Astudiodd fy mrawd gerdd yn yr ysgol a chelf yng Ngholeg y Barri. Ei athrawon a awgrymodd hynny iddo. Ar lafar, maent yn awgrymu pethau sydd tu allan i’r ysgol, ond nid yw’n digwydd yn swyddogol. Gwelodd fy mrawd wahaniaeth rhwng y profiad o fod mewn ysgol a choleg. Roedd cael y profiadau gwahanol hynny yn bwysig iddo.		Ms Isaac: My brother studied music in school and art at Barry College. His teachers suggested that to him. Orally, they suggest things outside school, but it is not done on an official basis. My brother saw a difference between the experience of being in school and in college. Having those different experiences were important to him.
[59] Mr Dafydd: Mae llawer yn mynd i’r coleg am eu bod yn teimlo eu bod eisiau peth rhyddid i fod yn annibynnol ac i beidio â bod yn yr ysgol.		Mr Dafydd: Many go to college because they feel that they want some freedom to be independent and not to be in school.
[60] Suzy Davies: A oes well gan fyfyrwyr aros yn yr ysgol yn hytrach na theithio rhwng dau leoliad, am fod hynny’n haws?		Suzy Davies: Do students prefer to stay in school rather than travel between two locations, because that is easier?
[61] Ms Isaac: Mae’r syniad o fynd i goleg yn apelio am eich bod yn teimlo eich bod wedi tyfu i fyny yn fwy, efallai. Mae’n dibynnu  ar yr unigolyn. Os yw’n well gan bobl aros mewn sefyllfa ddiogel a gwybod yn union beth maent yn ei wneud, byddant yn aros yn yr ysgol. Mae llawer o bobl yn hoffi mynd i’r coleg am eu bod eisiau gadael yr ysgol.		Ms Isaac: The idea of going to college is appealing because you feel that you have grown up more, perhaps. It depends on the individual. If people prefer to stay in a safe environment and know exactly what they are doing, they choose to stay in school. Many people like to go to college because they want to leave school.
[62] Mr Dafydd: Hefyd, mae’r cyrsiau sydd ar gael yn y coleg yn wahanol i’r cyrsiau sydd ar gael yn yr ysgol. Efallai fod hynny’n denu mwy.		Mr Dafydd: Also, the courses available in college are different to the courses available in school. That might also attract people.
[63] Ms Isaac: Hefyd, mae’r cyrsiau trwy gyfrwng y Saesneg, sy’n rhywbeth mae’n rhaid iddynt ystyried.		Ms Isaac: Also, the courses are in English, which is something that they must consider.
[64] Suzy Davies: A yw’r cysylltiad gyda’r ysgol yn atal pobl rhag mynd i’r coleg? Nid y chi, ond y bobl yr ydych yn eu hadnabod, efallai.		Suzy Davies: Does the link with the school prevent people from going to college? Not you, but the people you know, perhaps.
[65] Mr Dafydd: Nac ydyw. Mae’n bosibl mynd i’r coleg a’r ysgol os ydych eisiau. Mae brawd Greta wedi gallu mynd i’r ysgol a’r coleg.		Mr Dafydd: No. It is possible to go to school and college if you want. Greta’s brother has been able to go to school and college.
[66] Ms Isaac: Roedd fy mrawd yn cael gwersi yn yr ysgol trwy’r wythnos ac yn mynd i Goleg y Barri bob dydd Gwener. Roedd hynny bron fel gwneud hanner cwrs pan fyddai celf yn gwrthdaro â cherdd. Roedd hynny’n anodd ac yn broblem fawr. Os nad oedd y pynciau’n gwrthdaro, roedd popeth yn iawn. Roedd yn gorfod dal i fyny yn aml; dyna’r unig beth.		Ms Isaac: My brother had lessons at school all week and went to Barry College every Friday. That was sometimes like doing half a course when art clashed with music. That was difficult and a major problem. If the subjects did not clash, everything was fine. He often had to catch up; that was the only thing.
[67] Jocelyn Davies: What information do parents have? I imagine that there are opportunities for parents to discuss options with teachers. Would your parents have been aware of what was available in colleges?
[68] Ms Isaac: Na, nid wyf yn meddwl. Nid oes gwybodaeth swyddogol am golegau ar gael iddynt ei ddarllen mewn pecyn. Mae’r ysgol yn dweud beth mae’r ysgol yn ei gynnig—ni does dim o’i le gyda hynny.		Ms Isaac: No, I do not think so. There is no official information about colleges available for them to read in a pack. The school only says what the school provides—there is nothing wrong with that.
[69] Mr Dafydd: Rwy’n meddwl mai cyfrifoldeb y plentyn yw dewis beth mae eisiau ei wneud. Gall y rhieni  helpu, ond yn y diwedd, dewis y plentyn ydyw.		Mr Dafydd: I think that it is the responsibility of the child to choose what they want to do. Parents can assist, but at the end of the day, it is the child’s choice.
[70] Ms Isaac: Mae i fyny i’r unigolyn a’r rhieni wneud gwaith ymchwil. Ni allwch ddibynnu ar yr ysgol i roi’r holl wybodaeth i chi ar bethau y tu allan i’r ysgol neu am golegau. Felly, credaf mai cyfrifoldeb yr unigolyn a’r rhieni yw gwneud gwaith ymchwil ar y cyrsiau y maent am eu gwneud.		Ms Isaac: It is up to the individual and the parents to do their research. You cannot rely on the school to give you all the information on things outside school or on colleges. So, I think that it is the responsibility of the individual and the parents to research the courses that they want to do.
[71] Jocelyn Davies: I do not know whether you have parents evenings, where parents come along to the school, but if you do, is there anyone from a college present?
[72] Ms Isaac: Nid wyf yn credu, na.		Ms Isaac: No, I do not think so.
[73] Mr Dafydd: Na, ond roedd Gyrfa Cymru yno. Felly, os oedd y rhieni eisiau trafod y dewisiadau a dyfodol eu plentyn, roeddent yn gallu gwneud hynny gyda’r swyddog.		Mr Dafydd: No, but Careers Wales was there. So, if the parents wanted to discuss the options and their child’s future, they could do so with the official.
[74] Ms Isaac: Roedd Gyrfa Cymru yno er mwyn rhoi cymorth i Goleg y Barri, ond nid oedd yr athrawon yn cynnig unrhyw wybodaeth am y colegau.		Ms Isaac: Careers Wales was there to support Barry College, but the teachers did not provide any information about the colleges.
[75] Aled Roberts: Yn y gogledd, hyd yn oed mewn ardaloedd di-Gymraeg fel Wrecsam, mae cyrsiau ar gael trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn colegau. A oes unrhyw beth tebyg yn eich ardal chi?		Aled Roberts: In north Wales, even in the non-Welsh-speaking areas like Wrexham, there are courses available through the medium of Welsh in colleges. Is there anything of that sort in your area?
[76] Ms Isaac: Nac oes.		Ms Isaac: No.
[77] Aled Roberts: Felly, cynigir pob dewis ar gyfer addysg bellach trwy gyfrwng y Saesneg.		Aled Roberts: So, all options for further education are offered through the medium of English.
[78] Mr Dafydd: Credaf fod hynny’n wir yng Ngholeg y Barri.		Mr Dafydd: I think that that is true in Barry College.
[79] Aled Roberts: A oeddent yn eich cyfeirio o gwbl at golegau yng Nghaerdydd?		Aled Roberts: Did they refer you at all to colleges in Cardiff?
[80] Ms Isaac: Nac oeddent.		Ms Isaac: No, they did not.
[81] Aled Roberts: Soniaist am gyrsiau galwedigaethol o gymharu â chyrsiau academaidd. A oeddet yn teimlo bod unrhyw bwysau o fewn yr ysgol arnat i gymryd cyrsiau academaidd yn hytrach na chyrsiau galwedigaethol?		Aled Roberts: You referred to the comparison between vocational and academic courses. Did you feel that there was any pressure on you within the school to take academic rather than vocational courses?
[82] Ms Isaac: Nac oeddwn, ddim mewn gwirionedd. Holl bwynt y chweched dosbarth yw eich bod yn dewis y pethau rydych yn eu mwynhau ac yn gallu eu gwneud. Mater i chi wedyn yw penderfynu eich dyfodol. Ni fyddwn yn cymryd gwyddoniaeth, er enghraifft, oherwydd yr wyf eisiau cael swydd yn y dyfodol—nid wyf yn gallu gwneud gwyddoniaeth. [Chwerthin.]		Ms Isaac: No, not really. The whole point of the sixth form is that you choose the things that you enjoy and are able to do. It is then up to you to decide your own future. I would not take science, for example, because I want to get a job in the future—I cannot do science. [Laughter.]
[83] Aled Roberts: Rwy’n deall sut yr wyt ti’n teimlo. [Chwerthin.]		Aled Roberts: I know how you feel. [Laughter.]
[84] Ms Isaac: Yr wyf i felly’n cymryd celf, drama a chwrs BTEC mewn cerddoriaeth, sy’n eithaf creadigol. Nid oeddwn yn teimlo unrhyw bwysau o gwbl, er eich bod weithiau’n cael pobl yn dweud ‘O, wir?’ wrth ichi ddweud wrthynt beth yw eich dewisiadau. Fodd bynnag, nid penderfyniad yr athro yw eich dewisiadau, ond eich penderfyniad chi.		Ms Isaac: So, I am taking art, drama and a BTEC course in music, which is pretty creative. I did not feel any pressure at all, even though you sometimes get people saying ‘Oh, really?’ when you tell them what your choices are. However, it is not up to the teachers to choose your options; it is up to you.
[85] Mr Dafydd: Eich cyfrifoldeb chi yw gwneud eich dewis—yn gelf neu’n fathemateg. Beth bynnag yr ydych eisiau ei wneud, gallwch ei wneud.		Mr Dafydd: It is your responsibility to make your choice—whether it is art or mathematics. Whatever you want to do, you can do it.
[86] Aled Roberts: O ran eich cyfoedion, a deimlwch fod cyrsiau galwedigaethol yn cael eu diystyru o gwbl?		Aled Roberts: With regard to your peers, do you feel that vocational courses are in any way ignored?
[87] Mr Dafydd: Mae rhai pobl yn holi pam eu bod wedi dewis y cyrsiau hynny. Nid ydynt yn credu eu bod yn bynciau iawn i’w cymryd, gan nad yw pawb arall yn eu cymryd.		Mr Dafydd: Some people ask why they have chosen those courses. They do not see them as being appropriate courses to follow, because everyone else is not taking them.
[88] Ms Isaac: Mae llawer o bobl yn meddwl am gyrsiau creadigol fel cyrsiau mae pobl ond yn eu dewis oherwydd eu bod yn meddu ar ddawn naturiol. Eto, os ydych yn gallu eu gwneud, ac os ydych yn dda yn eu gwneud, pam lai? Er hynny, nid oeddwn yn teimlo unrhyw bwysau gan yr ysgol o gwbl.		Ms Isaac: Many people think of creative courses as ones that people only choose because they have a natural talent. Again, if you can do them, and if you are good at doing them, then why not? However, I did not feel any pressure by the school at all.
[89] Aled Roberts: Beth am eich rhieni? A oeddent yn rhoi unrhyw bwysau arnoch i gymryd cyrsiau mwy academaidd?		Aled Roberts: What about your parents? Did they put any pressure on you to choose more academic courses?
[90] Ms Isaac: Nac oeddent; mae fy rhieni yn chilled out iawn.		Ms Isaac: No; my parents are really chilled out.
[91] Aled Roberts: Rwyf yn credu ein bod yn gwybod pwy yw dy rieni di. [Chwerthin.]		Aled Roberts: I think that we know who your parents are. [Laughter.]
[92] Ms Isaac: Byddai mam yn poeni pe bawn yn meddwl cymryd unrhyw gwrs academaidd. [Chwerthin.]		Ms Isaac: I think that my mum would be worried if I was thinking of taking an academic course. [Laughter.]
[93] Lynne Neagle: We have heard from some people that schools find it difficult to make lesson timetables fit with each other. Have you had any experience of that?
[94] Mr Dafydd: Rydym yn cael awr ar gyfer pob gwers, a chredaf fod hynny’n ddigon o amser.		Mr Dafydd: We have an hour for each lesson, and I think that that is plenty of time.
[95] Ms Isaac: Mae gennyf tua phum awr o wersi rhydd bob wythnos, sy’n rhoi digon o gyfle i mi sortio fy hun mas, fel petai. Mae awr i bob sesiwn yn iawn; os yw’r sesiwn yn rhy hir, rydych yn colli diddordeb. Os oes gennych wersi dwbl yn ystod y dydd, maent yn rhoi gwers neu egwyl ginio rhwng y ddwy wers hynny, fel y gallwch gael seibiant, sy’n neis. Mae’r system honno’n iawn, yn fy marn i.		Ms Isaac: I have about five hours of free lessons every week, which gives me enough time to sort myself out, so to speak. An hour for each session is fine; if the session is too long, you lose interest. If you have double lessons during the day, they give you a lesson or the lunch break in between those two lessons, so that you can have a break, which is nice. That system is fine, in my opinion.
[96] Mr Dafydd: Mae gennyf ambell ddiwrnod llawn gwersi, ond, ar un diwrnod, un wers yn unig sydd gennyf. Felly, nid ydynt wedi gwasgaru’r gwersi mor dda â hynny.		Mr Dafydd: I have some days full of lessons, but, on one day, I only have one lesson. So, the lessons have not been spread out that well.
[97] Lynne Neagle: What about clashes? Are some people stopped from doing a course that they want to do because there is a timetable clash? Have you come across that situation?
[98] Mr Dafydd: Mae un neu ddau o fy ffrindiau yn gweld hynny gyda Ffrangeg, ond maent yn cael gwersi Ffrangeg un wrth un gyda’r athro yn ystod eu gwersi rhydd.		Mr Dafydd: One or two of my friends find that with French, but they have one-to-one lessons in French with the teacher in their spare periods.
[99] Ms Isaac: Roeddwn i am wneud llenyddiaeth Saesneg, ond roedd y pwnc hwnnw’n gwrthdaro’n fawr â chelf. Felly, roeddwn yn methu â gwneud llenyddiaeth Saesneg. Cynigiwyd Saesneg iaith i mi, ond byddai hynny’n mynd â phob gwers rydd a oedd gennyf, ac nid oeddwn am wneud pedair lefel A a BTEC, felly rhoddais y gorau i hynny cyn gynted ag yr oedd modd.		Ms Isaac: I wanted to take English literature, but that subject clashed badly with art. So, I could not take English literature. I was offered English language, but that would have taken up every spare period that I had, and I did not want to take four A-levels and a BTEC, so I stopped that as soon as I could.
[100] O ran gwrthdaro, mae gennyf ffrind sy’n gwneud lefel A mewn cerdd a Ffrangeg. Maent yn gwrthdaro fel arfer, ond mae’n mynychu’r ddwy wers—hynny yw, weithiau mae’n mynd i wersi cerdd, ac weithiau i wersi Ffrangeg. Mae hynny’n iawn ganddi; mae’n dal lan yn eithaf rhwydd.		As for clashes, I have a friend who is taking A-levels in music and French. They usually clash, but she attends both classes—that is, sometimes she goes to music, and sometimes to French. She is fine with that; she catches up pretty easily.
[101] Lynne Neagle: How does she manage to catch up if she is missing so many lessons?
[102] Ms Isaac: Nid yw’n colli llawer o wersi—dim ond dwy wers bob pythefnos, achos mae’r amserlen wedi gweithio mas iddi.		Ms Isaac: She does not miss that many lessons—it is only two a fortnight, because the timetable has worked out for her.
[103] Mr Dafydd: Hefyd, os yw’r athrawon yn gweld problem, maent yn cynnig gwersi yn eu hamser rhydd i ddala lan.		Mr Dafydd: Also, if the teachers see a problem, they offer catch-up lessons in their free time.
[104] Jocelyn Davies: I was wondering about your brother. You said that he goes one day a week, on a Friday, to the college and had to cram everything for that subject into one day.
[105] Ms Isaac: Ie. Roedd hynny yn sicr yn anodd iddo. Ni siaradais lawer â’m brawd am y peth. Dim ond BTEC cerddoriaeth roedd yn ei gymryd yn yr ysgol, tair gwaith yr wythnos, ond nid oedd yn cael cyfle i fynd i’r coleg unrhyw bryd arall ond dydd Gwener, ac roedd hynny’n anodd iddo. Dylai disgyblion gael mwy o ryddid i fynd i’r coleg. Dywedwch fod ganddo wersi rhydd, gallai fod wedi defnyddio’r amser hwnnw i fynd i’r coleg. Nid wyf yn gwybod a oes rheol bod rhaid mynd ar y diwrnod a roddir i chi yn unig, ond efallai y byddai mwy o ryddid i allu mynd i’r coleg yn dda.		Ms Isaac: Yes. That was really difficult for him. I have not spoken a lot to him about it. He was only taking a BTEC in music in school, three times a week, but he could not get to college any other time apart from Fridays, and that was difficult for him. Pupils should have more free time to go to college. Say he had free periods, he could have used that time to get to college. I do not know if there is a rule that you have to go only on the day given to you, but perhaps it would be good to have more freedom to be able to go to college.
[106] Mr Bryer: Beth yw oedran dy frawd, fel bod pobl yn gwybod?		Mr Bryer: How old is your brother, so that people know?
[107] Ms Isaac: Mae bellach yn 18 oed, ond roedd yn 17 ar y pryd.		Ms Isaac: He is now 18 years old, but he was 17 at the time.
[108] Christine Chapman: Lynne, do you have any other questions?
[109] Lynne Neagle: We have talked a little about travel; do you know of any teachers who travel to other colleges or schools to teach classes?
[110] Mr Dafydd: Mae athrawes o Lanhari yn dod i’n hysgol i ddysgu seicoleg. Roedd yn arfer cynnal gwersi seicoleg drwy fideo-gynadledda, ond mae hynny wedi newid, ac mae’n awr yn dod i mewn.		Mr Dafydd: A teacher from Llanhari comes to our school to teach psychology. She used to teach the class via video conferencing, but that has since changed so that she now comes in.
[111] Ms Isaac: Rwy’n meddwl bod athrawon drama’n mynd allan i asesu mewn ysgolion eraill—dyna enghraifft o hynny. Mae cwpl o athrawon drama wedi dod atom i gynnal gweithdai yn ein hysgol ni sawl gwaith. Rydym yn cael syniad o’r gwahanol ffyrdd o ddysgu sydd gan athrawon o bob ysgol, ac mae hynny o gymorth i ni.		Ms Isaac: I think that there are drama teachers who go out to assess in other schools—there is an example of that. There are a couple of drama teachers who have come to us to take workshops in our school a few times. We get an idea of the various ways of teaching that teachers have from all the schools, and that helps us.
[112] Lynne Neagle: Do you think that it is better for the teachers to travel, rather than the pupils?
[113] Mr Dafydd: Mae’n fwy perthnasol os ydynt yn dod at y plant; mae’n fwy fel gwers.		Mr Dafydd: It is more relevant if they come to the children; it is more like a lesson.
[114] Ms Isaac: Mae’n od, achos mae lot o bobl yn hoffi mynd i wahanol leoedd i ddysgu gwahanol bynciau, ond mae rhai’n teimlo’n fwy cyffyrddus bod yr athro’n eu dysgu mewn gwers yn yr ysgol, fel petai—nid wyf yn gwybod felly. Mae’n dibynnu ar yr unigolyn eto.		Ms Isaac: It is strange, because a lot of people like going to different places to learn different subjects, but there are those who feel more comfortable having a teacher teach them in a lesson in school, as it were—I just do not know. It depends on the individual again.
[115] Jocelyn Davies: Do pupils from other schools come to your schools for any of their lessons?
[116] Ms Isaac: Na.		Ms Isaac: No.
[117] Jocelyn Davies: Does that not happen at all?
[118] Ms Isaac: Ddim o gwbl.		Ms Isaac: Not at all.
[119] Aled Roberts: Mae eich sefyllfa’n arbennig, gan mai ysgol cyfrwng Cymraeg yw’ch ysgol chi. A oes dewis gennych erioed wedi cael ei wrthod oherwydd nad yw’r ddarpariaeth ar gael drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg?		Aled Roberts: Your situation is special, because yours is a Welsh-medium school. Have you ever had a choice refused because there is no Welsh-medium provision available?
[120] Mr Dafydd: Roeddwn i’n meddwl cymryd gwleidyddiaeth i lefel A, ond nid oedd ar gael yn ein hysgol ni, felly ni allwn. Rwy’n gwybod ei fod ar gael mewn ysgolion megis Plasmawr.		Mr Dafydd: I was thinking of taking politics at A-level, but it was not available at our school, so I could not. I know that it is available in other schools, such as Plasmawr.
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[121] Aled Roberts: Nid wyf yn gwybod llawer am ddaearyddiaeth y de; faint o bellter sydd rhwng eich ysgol chi a’r ysgol cyfrwng Cymraeg agosaf?		Aled Roberts: I do not know a lot about the geography of south Wales; what is the distance between your school and the nearest Welsh-medium school?
[122] Mr Bryer: Mae Plasmawr tua hanner awr i ffwrdd; mae Ysgol Gyfun Llanhari hefyd, ond byddai’n bell i deithio.		Mr Bryer: Plasmawr is about half an hour away; there is also Ysgol Gyfun Llanhari, but it would be quite some distance to travel.
[123] Aled Roberts: Onid oes darpariaeth ar y cyd rhwng eich ysgol chi ac ysgolion Llanhari a Phlasmawr?		Aled Roberts: Is there no joint provision between your school and Llanhari and Plasmawr?
[124] Mr Dafydd: Mae’n digwydd gydag ysgolion Garth Olwg a Llanhari o ran gwersi ffiseg, oherwydd mae’n rhaid i ddisgyblion o Lanhari fynd i Garth Olwg am eu gwersi ffiseg. Mae’r disgyblion yn mynd yna ar fws.		Mr Dafydd: There is between Garth Olwg and Llanhari with regard to physics lessons, because students from Llanhari go to Garth Olwg for their physics lessons. The pupils travel there on the bus.
[125] Aled Roberts: Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n digwydd yn eich ysgol chi.		Aled Roberts: However, that does not happen in your school.
[126] Mr Dafydd: Nac ydyw.		Mr Dafydd: No.
[127] Ms Isaac: Mae partneriaeth rhwng ysgol Bryn Hafren ac ysgol bechgyn y Barri. Mae chweched dosbarth Bryn Hafren weithiau yn mynd draw i ysgol bechgyn y Barri. Felly, mae partneriaeth, ond nid oes ysgol—		Ms Isaac: Bryn Hafren Comprehensive School and Barry boys’ school work in partnership. The sixth form from Bryn Hafren sometimes travels to Barry boys’ school. Therefore, there is a partnerhsip, but there is no school—
[128] Aled Roberts: A yw’r rheiny i gyd yn yr un sir?		Aled Roberts: Are they all in the same county?
[129] Ms Isaac: Ydynt.		Ms Isaac: Yes.
[130] Jenny Rathbone: Supposing that your passion for politics was so overriding that you decided to study it, even in English, would you have been able to do that, or did you not explore that option?
[131] Mr Dafydd: Ni fyddwn wedi hoffi cael fy nysgu yn Saesneg, felly nid oeddwn wedi meddwl am fynd i goleg cyfrwng Saesneg.		Mr Dafydd: I would not have wanted to be taught in English, so I did not think about going to an English-medium college.
[132] Jenny Rathbone: That is fair enough, but supposing that someone passionately wanted to study subject x—
[133] Mr Dafydd: Efallai y gallent fynd i’r coleg i’w hastudio, neu symud ysgol. Mae hynny’n ddigon posibl.		Mr Dafydd: Perhaps they could go to a college to study it, or change school. That is quite possible.
[134] Ms Isaac: Fel y dywedais, roedd llawer o fy ffrindiau eisiau astudio gwyddoniaeth drwy gyfrwng y Saesneg oherwydd y derminoleg, ond nid oedd yr ysgol yn eu hannog i fynd i ysgolion Saesneg; roedd yr ysgol am iddynt aros, wrth gwrs. Nid mater i’r athrawon oedd gwneud gwaith ymchwil am gyrsiau tu allan i’r ysgol oherwydd eu bod am hybu’r Gymraeg yn yr ysgol, rwy’n meddwl.		Ms Isaac: As I said, many of my friends wanted to study science through the medium of English because of the terminology, but the school did not encourage them to go to English-medium schools; it wanted them to stay, of course. It was not for the teachers to undertake research into courses outside the school, because they want to promote Welsh in the school, I think.
[135] Jocelyn Davies: Earlier, you mentioned dance groups—I am not obsessed with dance [Laughter.]—but would it have been possible to work with another Welsh-medium school so that there could have been enough pupils to run a dance course? Were you aware of that?
[136] Ms Isaac: Diflanodd y diddordeb. Nid oedd neb yn benderfynol o’i hastudio. Dim ond dwy neu dair o ferched yn y flwyddyn oedd â diddordeb. Ni wnaeth neb ystyried y peth, mewn gwirionedd.		Ms Isaac: Interest fizzled out. No-one was determined to study it. Only two or three girls in the year had an interest in it. No-one considered it, really.
[137] Jocelyn Davies: It was offered, so you must have had a teacher available to teach it.
[138] Ms Isaac: Ie. Yr oedd yr athrawon yn dweud eu bod yn meddwl cael dosbarth dawns, ond nid oedd dim byd pellach.		Ms Isaac: Yes. The teachers said that they were thinking of starting a dance class, but there was nothing more than that.
[139] Jocelyn Davies: Also, you did not have the option of studying politics. It was something that you would have chosen to study, but it was not available in any of the columns. Is that right?
[140] Mr Dafydd: Ydy. Nid oedd ar gael.		Mr Dafydd: Yes. It was not available.
[141] Christine Chapman:We will now move on to questions from Mark Drakeford.
[142] Mark Drakeford: Hoffwn drafod pwnc sydd ychydig yn wahanol. A oes profiad gennych chi, neu bobl yr ydych yn eu hadnabod yn eich ysgol, o gael gwersi drwy gyfrwng dysgu digidol neu ddysgu o bell?		Mark Drakeford: I would like to discuss a slightly different subject. Do you have any experience, or does anyone you know from school have experience, of having lessons delivered digitally or through distance learning?
[143] Mr Dafydd: Rwyf wedi cael un neu ddwy wers o’r fath gan bobl o’r brifysgol er mwyn helpu gyda fy ngwersi. Felly, rwyf wedi cael profiad o’r fath.		Mr Dafydd: I have had one or two lessons like that from people from the university in order to help me with my lessons. Therefore, I have had experience of that.
[144] Ms Isaac: Ddechrau’r flwyddyn, cafodd gwersi seicoleg eu dysgu ar deledu mewn ystafell gyfarfod. Roedd hwnnw’n effeithiol, yn enwedig os nad oedd yn bosibl i’r athro gyrraedd y safle, gan eu bod yn rhy bell i ffwrdd neu beth bynnag. Dyna’r unig wersi a ddysgwyd o bell.		Ms Isaac: At the start of the year, psychology lessons were taught on television in a meeting room. That was effective, particularly if the teacher could not reach the school, as they were too far away or whatever. Those were the only lessons taught from a distance.
[145] Mr Dafydd: Roedd seicoleg yn cael ei ddysgu yn yr ystafell fideo-gynadledda, ond mae’r athro bellach yn dod i’r ysgol.		Mr Dafydd: Psychology was taught in the video-conference room, but the teacher now comes to the school.
[146] Mark Drakeford: Yn eich profiad chi, beth sy’n dda a beth sy’n wael am gael eich dysgu yn y modd hwnnw?		Mark Drakeford: In your experience, what is good and what is bad with regard to being taught in that way?
[147] Ms Isaac: Efallai nad yw llawer o bobl yn ffocysu os yw ar deledu, achos nid yw’r athrawon yn gallu gweld a ydynt yn cysgu neu beidio; nid ydych ond yn eistedd yno. [Chwerthin.] Mae’n brofiad gwahanol, yn sicr—mae’n rhywbeth i’w wneud gyda’r dyfodol, ac efallai fod hynny yn apelio atynt yn fwy; nid wyf yn gwybod.		Ms Isaac: Some people may not focus if it is on television, because teachers cannot see if they are sleeping or not; you just sit there. [Laughter.] It is a different experience, certainly—it is something more futuristic, and perhaps that appeals to them more; I do not know.
[148] Mr Dafydd: Mae hefyd yn llai personol. Os oes disgyblion mwy nag un ysgol yn cael eu dysgu, yr ydych yn llai tebygol o fod eisiau gofyn cwestiynau.		Mr Dafydd: It is also less personal. If there are pupils of more than one school being taught, you are less likely to want to ask a question.
[149] Ms Isaac: Efallai fod y cyswllt yn wael rhwng y teledu a’r disgybl. Mae hynny’n mynd i fod yn anodd o ran gofyn cwestiynau ac ati, achos nid ydynt yn medru gweld popeth. Dyna’r unig broblem o gael teledu fel dull addysgu.		Ms Isaac: There could also be a poor link between the television and the pupil. That would be difficult when it comes asking questions and so on, because they will not be able to see everything. That is the only disadvantage of having television as a teaching tool.
[150] Christine Chapman: I have a couple of questions more, because we need to cover some quite important areas. I will hand over to Jenny.
[151] Jenny Rathbone: You obviously had a very good dialogue with your parents—you had clear ideas about your decisions and they supported you in those decisions. However, we heard witnesses telling us in earlier sessions that some people aged 14 and 15 are not well supported in making good decisions, particularly where their parents may not have had fantastically positive experiences in school themselves and may not feel very confident about what the options are and what will be best for their child. Thinking back to when you were in year 9 or 10, can you recall friends who perhaps have not stayed on to do A-levels and whether they struggled because they did not receive as much support from home? What other support did they have?
[152] Ms Isaac: Fel roeddwn yn dweud, roedd rhywun o Gyrfa Cymru wedi dod i’r ysgol i drafod gyda nhw. Roedd hynny’n grêt, achos roedd yn rhywbeth personol gan mai dim ond yr unigolyn a’r person o Gyrfa Cymru oedd yn trafod; nid oedd neb arall o gwmpas, ac felly roedd yr unigolyn yn gallu dweud yn union beth oedd ei deimladau am y pynciau. Felly, roedd digon o gymorth o ran hynny.		Ms Isaac: As I said, someone from Careers Wales came into school to discuss with them. That was great, as it was something personal as it was only the individual and the person from Career Wales in the discussion; there was no-one else around, so the individual could say exactly what their feelings were about the subjects. So, there was sufficient support in that regard.
[153] Jenny Rathbone: Was that just one meeting with Careers Wales? Was there an option of a second meeting if they felt that they needed more time to decide?
[154] Ms Isaac: Roedd y person o Gyrfa Cymru bob amser ar gael yn ei swyddfa, felly roeddech yn gallu mynd mewn i drafod beth bynnag roeddech ei angen pryd bynnag. Mae un o fy ffindiau heb fynd ymlaen i wneud lefel A neu fynd i’r coleg, ac wedi dechrau mynd i weithio’n syth achos dyna beth oedd hi eisiau ei wneud. Os ydych yn benderfynol o wneud rhywbeth, nid oes unrhyw gymorth yn gallu newid eich meddwl.		Ms Isaac: The person from Careers Wales was always available in their office, so you could go in to discuss whatever you needed to whenever you wanted. One of my friends has not gone on to do A-levels or to college, and has gone to work immediately because that is what she wanted to do. If you are determined to do something, no amount of support can change your mind.
[155] Mr Dafydd: Roedd gwybodaeth ar gael ar-lein i chi allu ymchwilio i beth oedd ar gael i chi o ran dewisiadau TGAU.		Mr Dafydd: Information was available online so that you could research what was available to you in terms of GCSE options.
[156] Christine Chapman: Did you ever come across a learning coach?
[157] Mr Bryer: Rwy’n meddwl mai Mrs Baker yw’r unigolyn hwnnw yn eich ysgol.		Mr Bryer: I think that Mrs Baker is that individual in your school.
[158] Ms Isaac: Mae gennym athrawes o’r enw Dr Baker sydd yn addysgu cemeg. Mae hefyd yn rhoi cymorth ar waith a dewisiadau TGAU a lefel A, felly hi yw’r person i fynd i’w gweld os ydych yn stryglo. Mae person Gyrfa Cymru yn gweithio i Gyrfa Cymru, felly nid ydynt yn gwybod am y cysylltiadau rhwng yr athrawon a’r disgyblion. Gan fod Dr Baker yn athrawes, mae’n gwybod.		Ms Isaac: We have a teacher called Dr Baker who teaches chemistry. She also helps with work and GSCE and A-level options. So she is the person to see if you are struggling. The Careers Wales person works for Careers Wales, so they do not know about the links between teachers and pupils. As Dr Baker is a teacher, she does know.
[159] Mr Dafydd: Hi sy’n trefnu bod yr amserlen yn cael ei dosbarthu, a’r colofnau.		Mr Dafydd: She arranges for the timetable to be distributed, and the columns.
[160] Christine Chapman: Okay. Thank you. Given the time, I will have to bring this session to a close. We had a few other questions but, if you are happy for us to do so, we will write to you and you can write back to us with the answers. Thank you all for attending today—Rhun, Greta, Dai and Geraint. It has been a pleasure meeting you today. I hope that you have enjoyed the session. I know that the Members have. Thank you for talking about your experiences. You will receive a copy of the Record of Proceedings for the meeting to check for factual accuracy. Thank you again for attending and good luck with everything that you do.
[161] The committee will now take a short break.
Gohiriwyd y cyfarfod rhwng 10.10 a.m. a 10.26 a.m. The meeting adjourned between 10.10 a.m. and 10.26 p.m.
Gweithredu Mesur Dysgu a Sgiliau (Cymru) 2009: Sesiwn Dystiolaeth Implementation of the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009: Evidence Session
[162] Christine Chapman: I welcome you all back. We continue our inquiry into the implementation of the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009, and today we will be taking evidence from Llamau. I welcome you all. We have Siân Browne, head of learning for life, Lisa Gardner, learning for life team tutor, and Jan Mead, another learning for life tutor. We also have two Llamau students, Nicole Broom and Sarah Lee; a warm welcome to you all. We are very pleased that you are able to help us with our inquiry. I am sure that you will enjoy the session today. Thank you all for attending.
[163] I will start off. It is up to you who replies. I just wanted to ask you about the choices that you may have had in school. Were you happy with the choice of subjects that you had? I do not know whether Nicole would like to start.
[164] Ms Broom: I did not really get much of a chance with my subjects, because I had spent eight years in England before I came back and made my choices. The only choice that I had was between history and geography. That was it, because I could not take Welsh—I had not studied it at secondary school. I just stuck with maths, English, science and history, and the rest of it was catching up on the schooling that I had missed, because I had been out of school for two years as well.
[165] Christine Chapman: Did you feel that the schools that you were in could have helped you to decide more?
[166] Ms Broom: I could have had a lot more support with it, because obviously I was brought up in care, so I moved around quite a lot. I think that I went to 12 or 13 schools in total. Moving from one to another, I was getting less and less support.
[167] Jocelyn Davies: Were you just presented with the same options as everybody else and expected to make your mind up in the same way, even though the history that you had, different to them, did not allow you to do that?
[168] Ms Broom: Yes.
[169] Aled Roberts: Was anyone in the school asked to help you at all with your choices?
[170] Ms Broom: No-one helped me go through my choices. I went back into school halfway through year 10, and I had left in year 8, so I had missed quite a big chunk.
[171] Julie Morgan: So, you did not have anyone to advise you.
[172] Ms Broom: No.
[173] Julie Morgan: Was there no-one where you were living to advise you on going to the school, and discuss things?
[174] Ms Broom: Obviously, because I was in a children’s home at the time, we had members of staff who would go in and try to help, but it was so late in the year anyway when I started that there was not much that could be done.
[175] Julie Morgan: So the school did try to work with the people from the children’s home.
[176] Ms Broom: Yes; it was more a case of giving me extra work to take home in the evenings, rather than having extra support in school itself.
10.30 a.m.
[177] Julie Morgan: Did they ever discuss the best courses or options with you, to go forward? Did you get no guidance on that at all?
[178] Ms Broom: No.
[179] Jocelyn Davies: Was there anyone to help you with this extra work that you had in the evenings?
[180] Ms Broom: Just my staff. If they did not know what I was meant to be doing, then I was just left to myself.
[181] Jocelyn Davies: Siân, is that routine for the history of the young people who you have?
[182] Ms Browne: Yes, for the majority of the young people who come to learning for life. Llamau provides support to homeless young people, the majority of whom have been through the care system or are young offenders, so have spent some time in a young offenders institute. Very often it mirrors Nicole’s story—lots of moves around schools, and instability, or, because of problems at home, maybe intermittent attendance at school. As a result, by the time they come to us, a lot of them have stopped attending at 14 or 15, or been excluded. My feeling is that they do not always get the support that they need to try to maintain their education, and as a result, they come with quite significant barriers to learning: little self-esteem or confidence that they can learn, or motivation. A lot of them feel that they cannot learn. What did you say earlier, Nicole? That you are made to feel that you are stupid, or something like that—and they are not.
[183] Jocelyn Davies: The provisions in the Measure do not take this into consideration, do you not think? I should not lead you in a question like that. I am not aware of any provisions in the Measure that take this into consideration.
[184] Ms Browne: No. I have to say that, in terms of this committee and what you are looking at, my experience in my job is of going to different network meetings with leaving care team managers, Careers Wales, and all the rest of it. I think that, most of the time, most schools have careers input, although I believe that that is changing at the minute, because Careers Wales itself is changing, and a lot of the schools now have a dedicated teacher who is there to work with young people who are in care. What you will find is that, within different schools, there are different elements of support for that, and commitment to that, and possibly funding, and the ability to finance that.
[185] Jenny Rathbone: Nicole, did you ever have an interview with Careers Wales—with people from outside the school?
[186] Ms Broom: I did, just before my GCSEs. The only thing that I did with them was the online forms, to see what would best suit you in the future, but never went through what I wanted to do.
[187] Jenny Rathbone: So it was just a piece of process, really. There was no advice or support that was tailored to you.
[188] Ms Broom: No. When I went to Careers Wales I was told that the outlook for my GCSE results was that I would fail most of them, so I did not have much support with trying to get through that either. When I heard that, I took myself away from everything to make sure that I studied to get qualifications to leave school with.
[189] Jenny Rathbone: That is very commendable. I am concerned that Careers Wales did not have a much more detailed look at your situation, to give you some proper advice on the next step.
[190] Ms Broom: I saw Careers Wales once while I was at school, and that was it.
[191] Jenny Rathbone: Thank you for that information.
[192] Aled Roberts: Sarah, do you remember seeing Careers Wales at all?
[193] Ms Browne: Do you want to answer, Sarah? Would you prefer to tell me? Did you see anybody?
[194] Ms Lee: No.
[195] Ms Browne: What about your brother? You were telling me about him earlier.
[196] Ms Lee: I do not really know much about that.
[197] Ms Browne: When we were talking earlier, Sarah told me about her brother. Sarah’s experience at school was that she did not attend a lot, and she left quite early, and her brother, who is 17 now, did not take to school, either. However, he has had quite a lot of support, apparently, inasmuch as they have looked at alternative education options for him, and he was attending school for—what was it, three days a week?
[198] Ms Lee: Yes.
[199] Ms Browne: Then he was doing a vocational course in motor mechanics, and he is now in college. So, as a result of that support, and thinking outside the box about how to do these things, Sarah’s brother is actually doing really well. If you compare the two, Sarah’s brother has had a better service, I guess. He is younger than Sarah, so that is indicative that things are improving, because he is now in college, studying and doing quite well.
[200] Aled Roberts: Was that because it was a different school? Who gave that support?
[201] Ms Lee: It was the same school.
[202] Jocelyn Davies: So he was spending three days a week in the school, and two in the college. He was moving between the two.
[203] Ms Lee: Yes.
[204] Jenny Rathbone: How old was he?
[205] Ms Browne: He is 17 now. Sarah, how old would he have been when he started this?
[206] Ms Lee: He started in year 10.
[207] Jocelyn Davies: It might have been provisions in the legislation that helped him.
[208] Ms Browne: Yes.
[209] Jocelyn Davies: Perhaps the legislation did not kick in soon enough for Sarah.
[210] Christine Chapman: It seems that things have got better.
[211] Aled Roberts: Nicole, you mentioned that you had four or five academic courses that you took for GCSE. Was there a discussion regarding any vocational courses or more practical courses?
[212] Ms Broom: No, nothing. I went in nearly at the end of year 10, so by the time I went to school it was a case of getting ready to sit the exams themselves.
[213] Aled Roberts: So, because you were so late into year 10, and given your experience of being told that you would fail your GCSEs—even though you obviously did not agree with that, because you decided that you were going to go for it—was there any discussion along the lines of, ‘You are going to fail your GCSEs, so perhaps we should look at you doing this or that’—even though you might not have agreed with them?
[214] Ms Broom: No, they were just looking at me staying on into the sixth form to resit my GCSEs.
[215] Aled Roberts: Was that Careers Wales?
[216] Ms Broom: No, that was done through the school.
[217] Aled Roberts: So, they did not talk to you about any college courses, or anything like that.
[218] Ms Broom: Not at that time, no.
[219] Aled Roberts: What do you feel about the difference between practical courses and academic courses?
[220] Ms Broom: I would have benefitted more from practical courses, because I like hands-on things, rather than sitting there reading a book. It just seems that you can learn more from that, and you can experiment with things in different ways.
[221] Aled Roberts: You put your head down for your GCSEs.
[222] Ms Broom: Yes.
[223] Aled Roberts: Where did you go after your GCSEs?
[224] Ms Broom: I tried to go to college, but obviously it did not work out for me at that time. Then I started moving about again, but now I am hoping to try to set up my own business instead, using what I have learned.
[225] Jocelyn Davies: You are doing that through the courses that Llamau are running.
[226] Christine Chapman: Do you get a lot of support for that, then?
[227] Ms Broom: Yes.
[228] Christine Chapman: Was that ever discussed with you when you were in school—setting up a business?
[229] Ms Broom: No. At that time, I did not think that I was capable of doing anything like that.
[230] Julie Morgan: When you were in school, did you think about what you wanted to do when you were older?
[231] Ms Broom: When I was at school I wanted to be a social worker—until after my exams.
[232] Julie Morgan: I was a social worker.
[233] Jocelyn Davies: For your students, Siân, basic skills must be an issue—if they have moved around a lot and so on.
[234] Ms Browne: Absolutely. Jan could tell you more about this. We do an initial assessment as each participant comes on to the project, and most present at entry level and really are starting at a very basic baseline in terms of their literacy and numeracy skills. Some young people do come to us with GCSEs but they have other barriers to learning, as Nicole has been explaining, in terms of moving around, lacking stability and being unsure how to channel their skills. However, we know that there is a huge basic skills deficit because it is what we work with every day. We have Learning 4 Life projects in five local authority areas, and we have supported accommodation in 10. It is something we address with every young person we work with, so we know how much of a basic skills deficit there is within our client group. Obviously, we try to address that. We deliver City and Guilds Essential Skills Wales qualifications. Sarah has just completed her communications qualification, and we have an ICT qualification being pursued. It is something we see as a problem.
[235] Again, to go back to the networks—and Lisa comes to many of these meetings—where you have people from colleges and so on around the table, the Basic Skills Agency, as it was, itself would say that young people are leaving school and going to college to study vocational courses when they are not even at level 1 for literacy. They may have left school with the school saying that they are at level 1, but they are clearly not and they struggle with the vocational courses because you need a certain level of literacy and numeracy skills to do that. This is a different issue and I guess I am going off the point, but there is an issue with regard to how we assess basic skills and how we deliver within schools because most teachers are not qualified basic skills deliverers.
[236] Jocelyn Davies: I suppose that you are helping to prepare these young people for employment.
[237] Ms Browne: Yes, absolutely. We have dedicated staff who look for volunteering opportunities. We are volunteer co-ordinators and employment link workers who make connections with employers and support the young people in work experience, which will hopefully lead to employment. We support the employer as well because that is really important. We also do things such as forging relationships with big companies. GE Aviation works very closely with us. Every couple of months, we take 13 or 14 young people to its plant in Nantgarw. The young people have a look around and the company explains what it does there. Any young person who wants to gain work experience with the company is then given that opportunity. However, the company will also send people out to the centres. For example, its human resources department does CV writing workshops and mock interviews and provides honest feedback to young people—kindly, obviously, in a good and positive way. We are looking to do the same with John Lewis. It is going to be offering us work experience opportunities as well.
[238] Jocelyn Davies: So you have direct contact between your client and local employers.
[239] Ms Browne: Absolutely, yes. They know who they can ring if there is a problem and the young person is supported. We all have bad days at work, do we not? To give you one example, there was a young woman in our Cardiff centre who did some work experience with United Welsh, which we work with on our supported accommodation. She now has a traineeship with Rhondda Cynon Taf local authority; she is getting a taster of all the services the local authority provides. It says that, at the end of the year, if all goes well, it will employ her. That has happened directly because the employment link worker sees her in the evenings. She makes herself available so that the young woman can meet her after work or on weekends; she can phone her in the evenings. The employers can do the same.
10.45 a.m.
[240] Christine Chapman: I know that Suzy wants to come in on this, but I just want to ask about the range of employers. There are obviously some really good employers involved, but do they tend to be only in certain sectors or are there different types?
[241] Ms Browne: No, they are not all in certain sectors. This project has been running for only 18 months. It is funded by the Big Lottery for four years. It is fairly new for us in terms of making those links. I mentioned GE Aviation and John Lewis because they are big organisations, but we have managed to place young people in apprenticeships with double glazing companies, the hospitality trade—which is a big one—retail and so on. There are different little shops and so on. We have a young person who is doing an apprenticeship with W.E. Dowds in Newport on the docks. It is a shipping company. He started off doing some work experience and has now gone on to college part time, which the company is supporting. He is studying automotive mechanics. Basically, the company has said to us that, at the end of the two years of his course, it will employ him. This lad is 17. He left school at 15; he was homeless and sleeping rough at 16, and Dowds has been fantastic.
[242] Most of these companies really do have a social conscience. You need to offer them the support as well. They need it because they are busy people. If you are employing people who are not doing their jobs you let them go or they go through the warning system and are told that they are not pulling their weight. They have got to treat everyone the same, so it is right that they would think, ‘That’s too much hassle; I’m too busy’, but if you offer them that support it is surprising how many will get involved. We have had a couple who have not done so well and who have failed, but these employers have taken on someone else. They have not given up just because they have not had such a good experience the first time around, which is really positive.
[243] Suzy Davies: During the course of this inquiry, we have spoken primarily to people representing schools and colleges, but we have not had a great deal of feedback on work-based learning, which, effectively, is what you are talking about.
[244] Ms Browne: Absolutely, yes.
[245] Suzy Davies: In my experience, people have left school and then done their work-based learning under New Deal or whatever the current scheme was. Do you think there is an argument with regard to the 14-19 pathway for getting the whole ethos of work-based learning much further up the agenda, not just in businesses, but in voluntary settings so that youngsters think of volunteering as part of the normal way of operating in their lives? Is there definitely an argument for saying that we should be doing far more of that—for certain youngsters, obviously; not for everyone?
[246] Ms Browne: I believe so. I was in school many moons ago, but I know that it is the same situation now with work experience in schools. You do it for a week; you go to an insurance company, a dental surgery or wherever and make the tea or put the stamps on the letters. There is a place within the education system—as was the case with Sarah’s brother—to start embedding that and providing those options much earlier. When young people are leaving school, college should not be the only option. Work-based learning opportunities should be there as well as old-fashioned apprenticeships. Why not?
[247] Jocelyn Davies: You place great value on volunteering with your clients, do you not?
[248] Ms Browne: Yes.
[249] Jocelyn Davies: Sarah and Jan, have you been doing any volunteering?
[250] Ms Browne: Sarah, you have been working on the Dimensions project. Do you want to talk a bit about that? Perhaps I should say a bit about that. Sarah has been doing volunteer work as part of a gardening project. We are in partnership with an organisation called Dimensions, which is a third sector organisation that provides supported accommodation for people with learning disabilities. Cardiff City Council gave the organisation two big plots of land. Where are they, Jan? I can never remember.
[251] Ms Mead: Castleton.
[252] Ms Browne: Yes, and we were approached to see if our young people would be interested in working alongside its service users to develop this as an allotment. So, Sarah, and a group of young people from Llamau, went in first and built raised flower beds and big pathways so that wheelchairs could get through, and Dimensions service users could get involved with that. That happened last year and it is ongoing. It has been fantastic for the young people and for Dimensions service users. Real friendships have been formed between them, as well as getting back to the land and producing food, which we get to eat, which is a bonus. [Laughter.]
[253] Christine Chapman: Time is moving on, but a number of Members want to ask some questions. Aled Roberts is next.
[254] Aled Roberts: Wrexham County Borough Council followed the Rhondda Cynon Taf model on training places.
[255] Ms Browne: RCT is brilliant. We have projects in RCT, and we link in to that.
[256] Aled Roberts: You mentioned that you are operating supported living in 10 local authority areas. How many of those 10 areas do you think would follow a similar model? When we introduced it, it was quite controversial.
[257] Ms Browne: Of the areas we work in, RCT is the best. It has been doing it for some time now. Caerphilly is in the process of replicating it, and we are working closely with Caerphilly on that. In all honesty, the others are not doing a lot. It is all about working for the family firm; why should they not do that? However, not many local authorities in Wales are picking up on that, when they should be.
[258] Christine Chapman: Lynne has a question.
[259] Lynne Neagle: How do you find the companies that you referred to as having a good relationship with? Do they approach you?
[260] Ms Browne: No. We are stalkers. [Laughter.] The third sector is well known for being stalkers. It is about ringing around, making the connections, leafleting, holding events and visiting job fairs and making links. We visit colleges, universities and so on. We are out there.
[261] Jocelyn Davies: You might contact them by stalking, but they would not offer young people jobs unless they were going to get what they wanted out of the young people in question.
[262] Ms Browne: Absolutely.
[263] Jocelyn Davies: So, it must be paying off for them.
[264] Ms Browne: It is. As I said, it is early days for us, but we have now placed some young people in employment, and they are sustaining that employment. I have worked for Llamau for 17 years, and I can see the change that has happened. When I was monitoring this two years ago, the move on would never have included moving on to employment. A small amount would go into further education and the majority would find other mainstream training providers that would offer higher levels of qualifications—[Inaudible.]—it is not that we cannot deliver it or offer it, it is just that we start at the base, work with the young person and build them up in order to get them to the stage where they can move on positively. I do the stats, so I know that it never involved moving into employment, and, in the past 18 months, it has been increasing gradually. Given the economic climate and the challenges for everyone, that is encouraging.
[265] Jocelyn Davies: For how long, typically, do you have people with you?
[266] Ms Browne: It is open ended. That is what is different about Learning 4 Life—we work at the individual’s pace. Our scheme of work is 13 weeks. Ideally, the young person would come in and progress within those 13 weeks. Once they have moved on, we continue to support them, but it could be at arm’s length, or it could be that they pop in or give us a ring. A lot of young people, for whatever reason, will leave, like Nicole, and live independently. It can be difficult for a young person aged 16 or 17 to manage the bills and go to training, so they may drop out. However, they can come back two or three months later; we will pick up. How long have you been with us, Sarah?
[267] Ms Lee: Over a year.
[268] Ms Browne: That is quite a long time, is it not? When Sarah is ready and we find the right opportunity for her to move on, she will do so. However, she can still come back and access our service; it is open-ended and very flexible.
[269] Aled Roberts: Do you have an upper age limit for the project?
[270] Ms Browne: Yes. We mainly work with 16 to 24-year-olds. However, Llamau also has a specific women’s services project providing supported accommodation; the age range for that project is 16 to 60. One afternoon a week in Cardiff, we also offer a women-only session, where women can come to an all-female environment if they have been victims of domestic abuse; there is no age limit for that session. Quite often, we find that once women have come to a couple of the Friday afternoon sessions, they then want to access the mixed sessions. Some older women have mixed with the younger people, which is surprising. However, the dynamics of that have been good for both age groups. We are all for intergenerational interaction, and we try to maximise it. However, the majority of our services are for 16 to 24-year-olds.
[271] Christine Chapman: Thank you for that. We now have a question from Suzy, but, before that, I just wanted to check whether any other Members have anything to ask, because we need to close the meeting at 11 a.m. However, Suzy is first.
[272] Suzy Davies: My question is specifically for you, Nicole. I want to take you back to when you were doing your GCSEs. You said that you had to spend a lot of extra time catching up on the core subjects: on English and so on. If you had been given the opportunity for more work-based learning—not just a week’s work experience—would it have cheered you up, or would you have found it a distraction from getting down to the nitty-gritty of those five GCSEs that you had to pass?
[273] Ms Broom: It would have helped a lot, because it is not focused on the one thing that you are doing constantly. When I ended up going to study for my GCSEs, a lot of the people in the class were quite childish, so I could not concentrate much while in lessons. Having time out and being able to do something more practical, then coming back to my studies—even if it were just an hour’s break—would have been helpful.
[274] Suzy Davies: A balance would have been great for you, would it not?
[275] Ms Broom: Yes.
[276] Julie Morgan: I have a similar question. Looking back, is there anything that would have helped you at that time that you did not get? What would have been the most important thing?
[277] Ms Broom: A lot more support, with people telling me that I could achieve the goals that I needed to, would have helped. At the time, I knew that I was going to college to do a childcare course. I wanted to be a social worker and it was one of the courses that I needed to do. The majority of people told me that I would not amount to anything and that I would not get the qualifications that I needed. Thankfully, I managed to get all of the qualifications that I needed to do my course, although it did not work out for me.
[278] Julie Morgan: You needed more encouragement, did you not?
[279] Ms Broom: Yes, a lot more. I needed someone to speak to when I thought that something was not going quite right, and that extra help.
[280] Christine Chapman: That is an important point on which to end this session, about the encouragement that you need, and I thank Sarah and Nicole for sharing their experiences in that regard. Given the time, we need to close this session. I thank you all for your attendance today; it has been very helpful and will help us in our inquiry on improvements to be made to the system. Thank you, Nicole, Sarah and Siân. Good luck to you all; it was nice to see you today.
10.59 a.m.
Cynnig Gweithdrefnol Procedural Motion
[281] Christine Chapman: I move that
the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order No. 17.42(ix).
[282] I see that the committee is in agreement.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig. Motion agreed.
Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 11.00 a.m. The public part of the meeting ended at 11.00 a.m.